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Li0nh3eart Profile
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Registered: 01-2008
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Russia and the Skripals


With further evidence of Russian interference abroad and violations of international law, is it time to ask whether we've been too lapse with them in the past? They've previously assassinated Litvinenko, annexed Crimea, supported an insurgency in eastern Ukraine, interfered in elections of sovereign nations, including the USA seemingly, their supported rebels have downed a commercial plane, they support war criminals in Syria and have now poisoned two dissidents in Salisbury with a nerve agent which may have profound effects on the health of hundreds. After each incident many have called for calm and restraint in case Russia retaliates, but has such restraint worked given that Russia continues to go beyond international normalcy and pursues actions which inherently increase tensions? What should the UK do given the violations?

Last edited by Li0nh3eart, Mar/18/2018, 14:36
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Kaunisto Profile
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The Big Boss

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Re: Russia and the Skripals


The question is, what is there to do?
Can't start a war with them.
Added economic sanctions hurt us almost as much as them and further that goes, the less they have to lose.
Diplomatic sanctions... is basically giving them the silent treatment. I'm sure that'll work.
And there's no united front to stand against Russia, even EU and NATO are somewhat divided, not to mention UN/global community.

All I can suggest is a propaganda war aimed at Russian citizens. Show support and encourage oppositions with Russian language media that stays close enough to truth, revealing connections and actions of Putin's allies.

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Mar/18/2018, 20:00 Link to this post Send PM to Kaunisto
 
Li0nh3eart Profile
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Re: Russia and the Skripals


Yeah, it's hard to make plan of action when the EU/NATO cannot come together and realise the threat, while Russia seeks to undermine them. It'd be great if the EU could realise the threat, but with them pursuing better ties with Russia they're not likely to make any kind of stand. However, I do not see their desires coming to fruition, Russia would only seemingly cease foreign interference if he believes that the foreign country is too weak to influence their decisions. Also, if we go down such a route, there is the question of do we abandon the eastern European nations to Russian interference? If so, then it seems a fundamental abandonment of what groups like the EU and NATO set out to do.

From a British point of view I'd consider it worthwhile looking at the Magnitsky act. However, there is no appetite within the government and Labour have made brief mentions, while spending more time and effort talking about oligarchs donating to the Conservatives. It doesn't help that Corbyn spends most of his time obfuscating and seems happy for us to just engage with Russia even if they're giving no impression that they are interested in a fair investigation.
Mar/19/2018, 9:30 Link to this post Send PM to Li0nh3eart
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re:


It seems to my like the world is a crazy place right now. I'd even go so far as to say I see a warm coming because of all the idiotic things people are doing. Hopefully it will more or less bypass us again. Humans are idiots.
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Kaunisto Profile
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Re: Russia and the Skripals


It never ceases to amaze me how differently peoples - not just people but peoples - can see the same world, especially in the age of internet.
Russians, Americans, Turkish, Hungarians... just to list couple examples of which we hear most in the news.
Third world I can somehow understand due conditions and in first world the incomprehensible people tend to fortunately be minority, but the "second world" like Russia is what I really don't get.

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Mar/19/2018, 19:50 Link to this post Send PM to Kaunisto
 
Li0nh3eart Profile
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Re: Russia and the Skripals


With the rise of far right groups in Italy, France and Germany I'd say there's a rise in people with incomprehensible views in 'first world' nations too. In the UK you see it with many of the Brexiters and Corbyn fanatics whose cult-like devotion to their cause and mistrust in any authority that doesn't suit their position leads them to baffling viewpoints and a self-assured, conspiratorial belief against what they see as the establishment.

Even over this Skripal poisoning case you see many a Corbynite, and maybe some UKIPers, engage in tin foil hat worthy nonsense. Wild claims about it being Mossad, the CIA, MI6, Ukraine, Theresa May orchestrating the attack to distract from Brexit, claims that it was a suicide pact exist. All because there is a growing climate of severe mistrust and misinformation which feeds it and gives their paranoia security. A selection of examples of this can be found here. Known journalists (in the UK, at least), such as Owen Jones, and bloggers are spearheading campaigns of distrust over allegations that the BBC maliciently doctored an image of Corbyn to make him appear pro-Russia (here, here). The BBC has denied photoshopping and say discrepancies are to do with contrast and colour fading. They have also used the background for Tory politicians, it's just a standard setting the scene picture. I find this growing discord and deliberate distortion of the ethical media disconcerting and dangerous. It's worrying that such paranoid, conspiracy laden views seem to be growing here, as it is elsewhere, and I'm at a loss at how it can be curbed.

Last edited by Li0nh3eart, Mar/19/2018, 21:18
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Kaunisto Profile
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Re: Russia and the Skripals


I'm guilty of the dangerous optimism of "can't happen here". Though that was somewhat shaken when we had the worst presidential candidate ever - who graduated from the same school as me!

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Mar/19/2018, 21:52 Link to this post Send PM to Kaunisto
 
Li0nh3eart Profile
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Re: Russia and the Skripals


Do you remember seeing her in your school days?
Mar/20/2018, 14:34 Link to this post Send PM to Li0nh3eart
 
Kaunisto Profile
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Re: Russia and the Skripals


Naah, I never had anything to do with students of different year and she may have only been for one year simultaneously with me.

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Mar/20/2018, 15:45 Link to this post Send PM to Kaunisto
 
Kaunisto Profile
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Re: Russia and the Skripals


Finland is kicking out one Russian diplomat, like various other countries (I think it was total of 30 countries ousting one or more).
I'm a bit surprised about some protests from our left/opposition, calling this hasty - especially as they come from respectable people.

It's an old line in Finnish politics that "we're going to have to live with Russia" and therefore should remain extremely careful and negotiating, but when we have so far limited all response to Ukraine and other Russian actions to the EU wide sanctions, I wouldn't say doing the same as other Nordics is that dramatic.

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